Open veep debate thread

Hmmm.... "gaffes" or parochial ignorant faith healing end timer! It will be a great debate. Drink to excess.

What I want to know is why you do this to yourself. You're an IR guy. Make the poor bastards in American Politics watch the debates and go do something more interesting (e.g., almost anything else you could do with your time).

In defense of Governor Palin.

She comes off as having no opinion of her own, and I don't think that's the case. She is simply scared of giving a wrong answer. It's McCain's position that she doesn't know very well. I don't blame her, even McCain isn't quite sure himself. Evidence? There's a clip in which Couric asks her about Emergency contraception. She finally responds by prefacing the answer with a disclaimer that it wasn't the McCain-Palin policy.

Being so new to the national scene, hasn't helped. It's difficult enough to walk through the minefield of presidential elections, she has to do it without a metal detector. That's the heart of the reason she flopped the question on which newspapers she reads. She could have listed any Alaskan newspapers and a couple national ones. To do that, she'd have to have a gauge for the national audience; what's 'too' liberal? What's too right wing? What makes me sound like an out of touch provincial governor? She couldn't decide on the fly so she went with "All of 'em", trying to imply her reading wasn't ideologically driven. No one reads 'All of em" = gaffe.

What I can't defend however, is the fact that she has no idea that Hamas rose to power via the ballot box.

Shameless plug.

Will be live blogging the Dodgers-Cubs at Baseball Musings if you want to watch the debate but keep track of something really important. :-)

Has anyone asked Palin which team she's rooting for the in post season? Maybe going for the Phillies gets them some votes in PA! :-)

Interesting strategy on the McCain part - they must be extremely confident Palin won't sound like a bumbling idiot herself. But now they are lowering our expectations about Biden, and if he strings a few good sentences then we can declare him a winner too.

Briefly - love your site - found it via bloggingheads.tv site.

With regard to Palin I agree for the most part with the poster above, Ann. I would add that Palin didn't make it to Governor on just her "spirit" and find it most likely she's been underestimated in her true abilities.

Additionally, I feel she's been mishandled, which is a McCain issue and clearly (at least to me) reflects his management style, be it considered good or bad. Personally, I feel he's been relying too much on advisers, considering his love of committees. Or, maybe it's the opposite and really does act without thinking. Either way, it's costing him.

Finally, I found it unforgiving that Palin (in the Couric interview - don't recall which installment) says in one instance she believes and supports the right to privacy, but yet, later on disagrees with Roe V Wade. Privacy is the foundation and most powerful component of Roe V Wade.

I understand nervousness, I understand party line, etc., etc. but when one is so invested in a concept (right to life) they are usually aware of the opposing forces - in this case Roe V Wade. And given a level of comfort coming from deep conviction, I believe even the most confused and nervous can have a moment of clarity and convey their convictions. Apparently she's unable to do that and this I don't understand nor in this case forgive.

She never answers the question. Gwyn has to keep reminding her of the question asked of her! She is shiny, but that's it.

To nitpick, anti-matter was the energy source, dilitium just focused the energy.

Dan- Joe could be implying that WE should build schools compared to those who built those schools.

I really tried to bite my tongue on this, but it's killing me. Governor Palin seems to have adopted Bush's take on the word "nuclear".

I can't believe she called herself a "Washington Outsider" Show, don't tell!

I did just learn that moms only reside in the heartland. Who gives birth in the cities and suburbs?

I'm having the similar response to this debate as I did to the first presidential debate, but reversing the partisan lineup. Senator Obama was the classic college professor at the coctail party--just enough information to impress those who are not informed about the ideas he is discussing, while Senator McCain brought far more depth to nearly every one of the questions. Obama just could not go as deep. Governor Palin can skim the surface of most of these issues, and come across as competent if you don't really know much about the topics, but Senator Biden has much more depth. I don't always agree with is conclusions, but the depth is real. Nevertheless, I becha Sarah "wins" the debate in the post-debate polls. I just becha....

My daughter, who is a freshman at Simmons College text messages:

yeah...the moderator is a simmons alumn! but i have to say...after listening to this and the other debate im voting libertarian

By the way, Dan, she's an IR major.

I think she out McCained McCain. Perhaps it was being more relaxed or the lack of being pinned to answer a question but she spoke on McCain better than McCain. The difficulty is McCain's points often ended up sounding silly. It left McCain's change being the nameplate on the door. While there is some philosophical difference, this became little more than cliches.

I thought Biden was passionate and convincing. The repition didn't annoy me as much as others. The white flag of surrender comment was a big mistake on her part!

I think you could have saved yourself a lot of suffering and just said beforehand that people who support Obama will like Biden and will say he won. People who support McCain will like Palin and will say she won.

For example, instead of boring and repetitive, Biden is "passionate and convincing." (Really? Passionate? Joe Biden? I may have to find a recording of this.)

Color me cynical.

The "white flag of surrender" sent right wing websites into a frenzy of adoration. However, I'm not sure it will play well with independents the majority whom oppose the war and favor a timeline for withdrawal. In short, she just accused a majority of Americans of being traitors.

In case no one noticed, Sen. Biden was the first person in this campaign to come close to challenging the Republican candidates to say how they would be different than George Bush.

Gov. Palin had a response about the "blame game" and kept repeating the word "maverick" as if she thought its use would ward off vampires. But honestly, if you were in the Democrats' shoes at a time when the incumbent Republican President had just passed 70% disapproval, would you want to answer any debate question without mentioning that your opponent supports every one of George Bush's major policies?

I couldn't watch it to the end. Fridge out of beer. From what I saw, it was pretty dull. I'll just skip to the Tina Fey version. In some perverse way, I'm hoping to have Palin in the national spotlight longer just to keep SNL funny. I have a feeling we're going to need lots of funny.

Sigh.

It was not entertaining, the ultimate sin. Oh well, I really just tuned in to get that watching a car wreck feeling in case Palin froze. I do get tired of Biden's incessant lying, however (a month in IRaq costs more than 7 years in Afghanistan (I've got a used car I can sell you, Joe!), especially his denial of Obama's statement about meeting that Iranian leader whose name I can't spell. Who cares about VPs anyway? If they did, we'd have had a President Dukakis. I do think there's a good chance she's going to be a strong contender for POTUS in 2012, especially if Obama wins this time around.

Yeah, I found it grew boring, too - maybe because Palin couldn't be bothered to answer half the questions, and grew less coherent as the night advanced - both parties have to be there to play to have a good game. Good luck, Palin, in dealing with a financial crisis by ducking IT.

IMHO, McCain's advisers don't trust Palin because she's an extremist interested in censoring her town library, and they don't want that to become obvious to the public.

Wow! Lots of astroturfers here! The liberals must be really rattled.

Palin rocked the house. You had better get used to her, because she's going to be around for a very long time.

And now John McCain should pound home on Bill Ayers, Wright, Rezko, and the Dems' responsibility for shooting down regulation that would have prevented the subprime crisis. The American people have every right to know the real Barack Obama, even if the media are more interested in Bristol Palin's baby.

I didn't watch as a form of protest. Johnny McCranky bailed on my home state just hours before the debate, leaving his supporters here baffled and PO'd. He doesn't think he can win Michigan so he publicly gives up? He's willing to fight in Iraq for 100 years but not in Michigan for a month? It's almost like he's daring me to vote for Barry O. No way, I'm switching to Webb.

BTW--watched Bill O'Reilly carve a new hole in Barney Frank's backside prior to the debate. Best entertainment all evening.

....And whatever you do, don't mention George Bush. I did for a minute last night, but I think I got away with it.

"Palin’s spoken message, “I might not answer the questions in the way you like, but I’m going to speak right to the American people!” Unspoken message: “Darn it, I’ve learned how to duck a direct question! Yay!!”"

How much are Dan's et al Simple Sarah problems not really about her readiness to lead but rather about her not yet mastering the Washington art of answering a question by not answering it but sounding as if you're actually answering the hell outta that question? Case in point: Obama, who can take five minutes in reply [all, if he's on his game, one perfectly periodic sentence full of every dependent clause ever conceived of] after which one doesn't have a clue whether the question was answered but lordy lord how sweet it all sounded [I fancy Cicero may have liked Obama but Caesar would have despised him]. I mean, sure, Obama's got the law degree but, once you get past how well he says what essentially amounts to nothing, is he really any more fit to lead than her?

Or is it simply that Sarah appears to be not especially bright while Obama seems kinda clever? Of course then you're walkin' straight into the Reagan paradox...

[...] rather surprising comment, though this one was caught by others, is that she wants to expand the power of the VP, or at least that seems the most reasonable [...]

the VP debate was stunning. Palin did a decent job faking about 20% of the questions and didn't even bother answering the other 80%.

i couldn't help thinking of the end of the movie Billy Madison, when the debate moderator says to Adam Sandler, "Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

As a Middle-Eastern watching this debate, I found 3 mistakes Biden made regarding the situation there (Hezboullah in Lebanon, West Bank and Hamas election and Madrassahs) and I am an average immigrant!

If this is experience then it's good that palin does not have much. the sad thing is none of the so called journalist in CNN, CNBC, FOX caught any of the mistake right away. If Palin had made all these big mistakes, she would have bee toasted.

But Biden was embarrassing to watch because here is a guy that has been in the Senate 36 years!!!! travelled the world and met many leaders and been around and THIS IS THE RESULT? hmmm

"...launched into some stem-winders when shorter, crisper replies would have been better."

Though a lot of people today use stem-winder as you do, it traditionally refers to a rousing political speech, one that "exalts the crowd to a pitch of unbridled enthusiasm."

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/06/wordimprov.htm