Posted By Daniel W. Drezner Share

Noam Scheiber has a long story in The New Republic that argues the contrast between Bill Clinton and Barack Obama's leadership styles can be explain by the differences between Harvard law school (Obama's alma mater) and Yale law School (Clinton's alma mater):  "The two schools stand on opposite sides of a cultural chasm in the academic world. Even more than that, they stand for different theories of governing."

I always love Scheiber's long-form stuff (full disclosure:  Scheiber was my editor when I wrote for TNR online), but this seems like an explanation too far for me.  One could reverse the question and ask whether Harvard Business School explains George W. Bush (my guess is no).  As PrawfsBlawg puts it, "this is decidely one of those cases where the plural of anecdote is not data, and the whole piece comes off as weakly supported." 

There's something else about this essay that gnaws at me, however -- why is graduate school now the formative experience for presidents?  I bet more people know that Clinton went to Yale law school than Georgetown as an undergrad.  That holds double for Obama's matriculation at Harvard law school, which overlooks his time at either Occidental or Columbia. 

Speaking for myself, I undoubtedly learned a lot at my graduate school.  If pressed, however, I suspect that my truly formative years were spent at this place.  I also suspect that this is true of more professionals than not. 

I put it to (well educated) readers, however -- what matters more in your biography, your undergraduate years or your graduate years? 

 

B. ELLI COSE

3:51 PM ET

January 21, 2009

For me personally, grad

For me personally, grad school was considerably more important than undergrad.

 

BENJAMINL

4:33 PM ET

January 21, 2009

I thought the conventional

I thought the conventional wisdom was that undergrad matters more for the personal identity, and grad school matters more for the professional identity.

(I agree with the CW)

 

DCOFFIN

5:25 PM ET

January 21, 2009

Grad or undergrad?

In grad school, I mastered a discipline and learned the norms and conventions of that discipline. Useful stuff.

As an undergrad, I grew up. Vital stuff.

So I'd say that my undergrad experience did more to shape who I am, what I believe, and how I act, than grad school did.

 

JENSFIEDERER

6:45 PM ET

January 21, 2009

In a question about

In a question about education, usually what counts is the highest level. If you got a Ph.D. from Stanford, whether you went to a posh highschool or not is probably immaterial.

I don't think you can answer any "formative experience" question with anything as vague as the name of an institution, no matter how respected (something like "boot camp" might be an exception).

 

OTTOE

7:31 PM ET

January 21, 2009

Grad Schools

If Scheiber's argument rests on an underlying assumption that is difficult to grasp, I would say that that difficult assumption is not that graduate school is significant relative to other educational and life experiences, but that graduate schools are heterogeneous.

I agree with the commenter above that naturally one looks to graduate school experience when seeking to explain professional style; and Obama, Clinton, and for that matter Bush all track with what is widely known to be typical for their respective graduate institutions.

What is less obvious perhaps (but what I think is nevertheless true) is that Harvard Law, Yale Law, and Harvard Business are really so different. One could forgive someone who hadn't experienced a few graduate institutions for thinking that they're all the same. I see huge differences, but then, I would, because I see such institutions up close.

 

BLUE13326

8:52 PM ET

January 21, 2009

Law school taught and shaped

Law school taught and shaped me so much more than undergrad. It's not even close.

 

SJC

11:48 PM ET

January 21, 2009

Apparently Mr. Darcy wasn't available.

I'm inclined to agree with dcoffin's take - that I grew up in undergrad and got all professional in grad. However, I think that moving to another country to do my grad school had more of a profound affect on me than the four years of my undergraduate combined. You really learn to fend for yourself when your closest family is an eight hour flight away. Additionally, I found out that the Brits had a completely different way to thinking about IR than what I was used to.

That being said - I'd still go with learning the basics and critical thinking in undergraduate, but really polishing up my knowledge and technique in post-grad.

For Obama - I think Harvard is such a big deal to his personna not so much for the fact that he was there, but because he was the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review. (The fact that he was a law student seems almost tangential... in fact, people seem to make more of the fact that he was a law professor....)

 

Daniel W. Drezner is professor of international politics at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University.

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