Posted By Daniel W. Drezner Share

Yesterday I received a lot of queries about this Bret Stephens op-ed in the Wall Street Journal

Pop quiz—What does more to galvanize radical anti-American sentiment in the Muslim world: (a) Israeli settlements on the West Bank; or (b) a Lady Gaga music video?

If your answer is (b) it means you probably have a grasp of the historical roots of modern jihadism. If, however, you answered (a), then congratulations: You are perfectly in synch with the new Beltway conventional wisdom....

There may well be good reasons for Israel to dismantle [the settlements], assuming that such an act is met with reciprocal and credible Palestinian commitments to suppress terrorism and religious incitement, and accept Israel's legitimacy as a Jewish state. But to imagine that the settlements account for even a fraction of the rage that has inhabited the radical Muslim mind since the days of [Sayyid] Qutb is fantasy: The settlements are merely the latest politically convenient cover behind which lies a universe of hatred. If the administration's aim is to appease our enemies, it will get more mileage out of banning Lady Gaga than by applying the screws on Israel. It should go without saying that it ought to do neither. 

Your humble blogger has long defended the vital role that pop tarts could play in U.S. foreign policy, so you think I'd have a long-winded response.  Fortunately, I'm lazy, so a couple of other bloggers have tackled this question. 

As Andrew Exum points out, Middle Eastern, Hezbollah-supporting pop tarts like Hayfa Wehbe can throw down with Lady Gaga any day of the week when it comes to provocative music videos.  In fact, we will now take a 10-second station identification so every reader can visualize that precise throwdown:

[You're reading Daniel W. Drezner at ForeignPolicy.com -- your source for global politics, economics, and salacious pop culture!!--ed.]

Daniel Larison suggests that Stephens is suffering from a wee bit of present-ism:  

That must be why America was beset by jihadist attacks since at least 1948. Oh, wait, this never happened? How strange. That might mean that the decadence-as-cause-of-terrorism argument grossly exaggerates the importance of such cultural factors in explaining jihadist violence as a way of distracting us from remediable political grievances. In fact, attacks on Americans and American installations began after we inserted ourselves into the region’s conflicts and began establishing a military presence there. Hegemonists can obsess over the writings of Qutb all they want, but it will not change the reality that anti-American jihadist violence did not occur until the misguided 1982-83 intervention in Lebanon. U.S. and Israeli military operations and policies of occupation provoke much broader, more intense resentment among Muslims than any general dissatisfaction with the decadence of Western culture and its deleterious effects on their own societies. The suicide bomber in Khost was radicalized by the treatment of Gaza, not the performances of Lady Gaga. It might suit a certain type of Westerner to associate fanaticism, political violence and strict moralism, but on the whole this is a misunderstanding and a distraction from the real causes of the problem.

The recent Moscow subway bombings are instructive on this point. The bombings are outrageous atrocities for which there is no excuse or justification, but one would have to be a blind fool to say that Chechen grievances, which outside jihadists have been exploiting for the last decade, are based in morally offensive Russian pop culture. It is acceptable for hegemonists to acknowledge this when Russia is the target of terrorist attacks, but when it comes to acknowledging U.S. and allied policies as important contributing factors we are treated instead to these sweeping cultural arguments and close readings of Sayyid Qutb.

And, finally, Cato's Justin Logan goes for the kill shot

Stephens veers back toward falsifiability by writing that “the core complaint that the Islamists from Waziristan to Tehran to Gaza have lodged against the West” is that we’re too sexed-up.  This is, of course, not accurate.  Bin Laden’s 1996 fatwa, after all, was not titled “Declaration of War against the Americans with their Supple Buttocks and Protuberant Breasts.”  Instead, it was called “Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places.”  Or you can take a look at the second fatwa, released in 1998.  The three big claims made against us in there were

  1. Our presence in Saudi Arabia and support for the Saudi government, which he hates;
  2. Our sanctions regime against Iraq and its alleged effects on Iraqi civilians; and
  3. Our support for Israel.

There’s a lot you can do with this information, up to and including supposing that bin Laden would not be satisfied even if these three conditions were somehow removed.  You can also read the actual fatwas and conclude that the Israel stuff was far from the centerpiece of the argument and seemed sort of tacked on at the end for good measure.  I actually think both these arguments are good ones.  But actually thinking about what’s in those texts should cause you to ask why, of all the grievances he could have lodged, including our reverence for Josephine Baker, did he pick those three issues?

One last thought.  Let's ignore what these other bloggers have said for a moment.  Let's temporarily accept Stephens' assumption that Muslims in the Middle East are equally exercised about Israel/Palestine and the decadence of U.S. popular culture.  If that's true, from a policy perspective, which issue should the United States prioritize? 

If you think about this in terms of American national interests, it's not a close call.  Pushing Israel/Palestine forward requires leaning a bit harder on an ally that is actually vulnerable to U.S. pressure.  Censoring U.S. popular culture would require massive domestic costs.  If you were offering the president advice among these policy options, which one would you say yields the greatest gain for the least cost to the United States? 

Andrew H. Walker/Getty Images

 

BLUE13326

4:22 PM ET

March 31, 2010

Stevens is probably right to

Stevens is probably right to an extent, but so are you. At least if you consider Qutb to be the most important philosophical influence on modern jihadism, which, as far as I know, is a fairly non-controversial point. Also, if you look at bin Laden's fatwa, it is pretty clear it is the work of a revolutionary who's prime interest is the otherthrow of the Saudi monarchy, and the Israel issue is simply tacked on as an afterthought. In fact, he goes on and on about the economic problems within the kingdom, blaming us, of course; and on how our decadence and weakness will lead to our downfall.

But, so what? It's not like we are going to change our culture for him or the Qutb jihadists; even if we could. So, why not go for something we can change to take out a recruiting tool.

 

STATSGURU

4:55 PM ET

March 31, 2010

Pop Tarts

I thought this was going to be a food post. Now I'm compelled to watch "Telephone" while eating a pair of Brown Sugar Cinnamon pop tarts.

 

NICKZED

6:53 PM ET

March 31, 2010

Also remember that the

Also remember that the jihadist definition of 'decadence' in American culture extends to things that are, um, somewhat-more-universally-agreed-upon-in-terms-of-importance, like evolutionary science and gay rights. Which goes to show just how absurd it is to even begin to compare jihadist contempt for things enshrined by our political rights and jihadist contempt for Israel.

 

SJH71

8:10 PM ET

March 31, 2010

both yield virtually no gain in terms of placating jihadists

Both alternatives are the wrong way of thinking about it. Essentially bin Laden and ilk are seeking power. The underlying reason is the abject failure of the Arab Muslim world in every area that can be measured except selling oil, combined with the memory (part true, part fabricated) of a glorious Muslim past. They blame this failure on the "infidel" regional governments. Having failed at overthrowing or coopting those governments, they turned their attention to the "Far Enemy" -- the United States. They will continue attacking us until so long as 1) they see us as contributing to the current state of Arab Muslim failure by reinforcing the hold on power of the current governments of the region, and 2) they continue to believe their attacks do some good. There is no end to the number of "reasons" that can be tacked on to the cause, from Britney Spears to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Resolving or eliminating such "reasons" will not end this conflict.

Completely withdrawing from the region (probably the Cato solution) could well end it, but many would argue this is deeply unrealistic and undesirable. Short of that, no half-measures will placate the bin Laden types. So, short of a miraculous success story in human development in the Middle East, we will have to live with this conflict. There are many options for how best to do so, but picking policies (or modifying our culture) in order to placate our enemies is ridiculous. That goes just as much for pressuring Israel as it does for sending Lady Gaga to Guantanamo.

 

ZATHRAS

11:54 PM ET

March 31, 2010

This is just another Wall

This is just another Wall Street Journal column pouring scorn on those who suggest there are good reasons why the American position on expanding Israeli settlements should not be identical to the position of the most unreasonable factions represented in the current Israeli government.

Lady Gaga is merely collateral damage. This Stephens fellow could just as easily have damned Franklin Graham and the prominence of distinctively un-Muslim evangelical Christians in America as the reasons Arab Muslim opinion of the United States is so strongly negative.

For the record, however, and for what it's worth, I am willing to consider steps to ban any music or performance thereof likely to make foreign audiences think Americans have grown stupid. I believe in respecting the original intent of the Founding Fathers, and am convinced James Madison would have thought this was OK, just on principle. Any benefit we'd derive in the court of Muslim public opinion would be a bonus.

 

GRANT

1:24 AM ET

April 1, 2010

I'm reminded of an op-ed (in

I'm reminded of an op-ed (in the WSJ I think) when Ban Ki-moon became Secretary-General. It's last piece of advice was to put on the website that a former Secretary-General had also been a Nazi. While it might have been a nice touch, the writer presented the idea as though it would be a great breakthrough by the UN that would fix its problems. Sometimes I think people just write things because they're like little children desperate for grownups to pay attention to them...then I look at shows like The O'Reilly factor and I know that they're like little children desperate for grownups to pay attention to them.

 

DRAGONLADY

7:03 AM ET

April 1, 2010

You know, she had it coming with that mini-skirt and all...

So the best Logan and Larison is going to come up with is they’re pissed off at us for stomping around in the region? What else is new?

My quibble isn’t with that theory—I agree with it to some extent. It’s with the selective history they draw on between Israeli and American actions as the single thread to presto—ta da--terrorist attacks. Are those actions a contributing factor? Sure. But it’s overly simplistic and sounds awfully close to the line of reasoning of well, she was wearing a mini-skirt and all--whaddya expect! To be clear, I'm not saying the authors believe any terrorist attacks were morally justified but I seem to recall a few pivotal moments in history that the authors may have overlooked. When the Israelis signed the Oslo Peace Accords, what did they get? The second intifada! When the Israelis withdrew from Lebanon, what did they get? An emboldened Hizballah on their borders! When the Israelis withdraw from Gaza, what did they get? An implacable Hamas on their borders launching rocket attacks against them! With that rate of success, more Israeli concessions will probably actually recruit more jihadis because it emboldens them!

When Eisenhower publicly embarrassed our allies during the Suez crisis in an effort to be neutral, what did we get? The UK and France embarrassed their great power veil was finally torn from them, withdrew from the region leaving us holding the bag there, with the Cold War kicking into high gear (that's not my assessment--it's Kissinger's). Was the 1979 Iranian revolution due to US foreign policy, too? May not that have inspired, perhaps, a rise of terrorist groups in the region, particularly in the case of Lebanon? What was, hmm, I wonder, the Sunni fundamental groups’ reaction to a rival Shia power declaring themselves the leaders of the region? Or perhaps the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan had something to do with development of radical Sunni extremists? The bottom line is we came next as their target because we stood in between them and their deranged goals of a totalitarian Islamic Caliphate in the region. Our culture just rubs salt into the wounds. Either way, gotta remind myself bad US & Israel, hand slap, hand slap, when we don’t give in to terrorism.

 

ANON_ANON

2:01 PM ET

April 1, 2010

Abu M

When are you going to add Abu Mu to your daily reads?

 

NUR AL-CUBICLE

7:56 PM ET

April 1, 2010

Old story

I wish I could remember where I read this, but the article stated that young Russian Jewish immigrants to Israel in the 20's and 30's working in collective farms, er kibbutzes, in Israel used to engage in deliberately shocking behavior outdoors in full view to rile the Arabs (young women going around topless, unabashed lovemaking, etc.). So it's an old story...

 

VARTIKA

8:17 PM ET

April 1, 2010

The Shocking TRUTH of Terrorism in India!!

There isn't an iota of doubt as who is responsible for terrorism in India. It is India itself. Thats right India is busy engaging in terrorism on her own country so she can score brownie points against neighbor Pakistan.

All leading law enforcement agencies openly work for exiled underworld don Dawood Ibrahim - who supposedly is in Sonia

Gandhi's ( former PM's Widow) first circle of close friends.
So much so that even NDTV ( India's leading media house) is hand in glove as well. All senior police officials i.e. Director

General level staff are but employees of this vast underworld network that thrives openly in a lawless jungle state that is

India. And underworld don Dawood Ibrahim operates all of India through his right hand man Muthappa Rai.

And there's one man - an IIM Graduate ( India's Harvard) who is now being chased all over the country by this crime network

in a desperate bid to shut him up from blowing the whistle. And in the process have exposed the most unusually brilliant

psychological alternative means to operate in India. And is the reason why we haven't heard of any underworld story from

India in the past decade and a half. Read this ghastly truth of Terrorism in India on his blog

http://truthbottle.blogspot.com

And he needs your help to save himself and pronounce the whole truth to the world. His whole family has been killed, his job was removed and the gangsters along with Indian Police openly chase him everywhere he goes!

 

NICHOLAS WIBBERLEY

10:52 PM ET

April 1, 2010

Heads and Tails

These alternatives are heads and tails of the same coin. It is a characteristic of empires that they export their culture and harvest foreign resources, both tangible and intangible, and the process is rarely welcomed with general enthusiasm. I vividly remember from my early youth, the dismissive resentment with which many Europeans beheld the first US tourists after the 39/45 war. With time resistance fades leaving only a persistent residue that acts like a magnet to the disaffected. The process is a by-product of empire. The Palestinian conflict with Zionism would not be what it is but for the US Empire, and Jews, Arabs, and Christians might today be contentedly cohabiting in the area, as once they did. Or they might not.

 

MUHAMMAD_CAPABLANCA

11:23 PM ET

April 3, 2010

Absolutely Agree

Saying that American foreign policy has no influence on "Anti-American" sentiments is absolutely ridiculous. It's nothing to do with what Americans stand for, it's what they've done. Normal everyday Muslims have no problem with American culture and while some of it may be frowned upon by the more religious figures, the idea of a 'return to an Islamic caliphate based on a strict interpretation of Sharia Law' is not realistic nor is it desirable and these ideas are only carried by a small minority. However, the violence against the Palestinians and Muslims in the Middle East carries a major role in developing unhealthy hate towards the American government. Therefore, the idea that "Anti-Americanism" stems only from hatred towards American culture supposedly personified by the activities of Lady Gaga is not only wishful thinking but quite dangerous thinking as it shows that reasons for terrorist recruitment are not fully realized yet.

 

HEATSKETCH

9:47 PM ET

April 22, 2010

the only reason tarts like

the only reason tarts like Hayfa Wehbe exist in the Islamic world is because of wider influence American pop culture has had on the world for the past 50 years. Without American pop tarts infiltrating their culture, Hayfa Wehbe and those like her would not exist in Islamic societies. Fundies like Qutb and his contemporaries understand this, and it is very much on of the reasons driving them.

 

Daniel W. Drezner is professor of international politics at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University.

Read More