The USA's thrilling, last-minute victory over Algeria yesterday seemed tailor-made for pushing the popularity of the sport in this country to the next level.  Americans like winners, but they really like last-minute, come-from-behind winners, and this American team seems to excel in that area. 

On the other hand.... I'm not sure I really want Americans to care that much about what happens on a soccer field football pitch.  To see why, consider this Steven Erlanger story in the New York Times about how the French elite has reacted to that country's ignominious exit from the World Cup

The philosopher Alain Finkielkraut, who has often criticized the failures of French assimilation, compared the players to youths rioting in the banlieues, France’s suburban ghettos. “We now have proof that the French team is not a team at all, but a gang of hooligans that knows only the morals of the mafia,” he said in a radio interview.

While most politicians have talked carefully of values and patriotism, rather than immigration and race, some legislators blasted the players as “scum,” “little troublemakers” and “guys with chickpeas in their heads instead of a brain,” according to news reports.

Fadela Amara, the junior minister for the racially charged suburbs who was born to Algerian parents, warned on Tuesday that the reaction to the team’s loss had become racially charged.

“There is a tendency to ethnicize what has happened,” she told a gathering of President Nicolas Sarkozy’s governing party, according to news reports. “Everyone condemns the lower-class neighborhoods. People doubt that those of immigrant backgrounds are capable of respecting the nation.”

She criticized Mr. Sarkozy’s handling of a debate on “national identity,” warning that “all democrats and all republicans will be lost” in this ethnically tinged criticism about Les Bleus, the French team. “We’re building a highway for the National Front,” she said, in a reference to the far-right, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim party founded by Jean-Marie Le Pen....

Mr. Sarkozy himself called a meeting on the disastrous result on Wednesday, summoning Prime Minister Francois Fillon, Sports Minister Roselyne Bachelot and Rama Yade, the junior sports minister. In a statement, he said he had ordered them “to rapidly draw the lessons of this disaster.”

Now, to be fair, there have been a few moments in the past when a US team has performed so abysmally on the global stage that it prompted a minor, ugly political kerfuffle (I'm thinking of the 2000 Olympic men's basketball team).  Still, in order, here's what I don't want to see happen in the United States: 

1.  Philosophers using a national team's sporting performance to opine about the state of the union;

2.  Any politician blaming the performance of a national sports team on the country's government;

3.  A Minister of Sport;

4.  A head of state summoning the head of government and other policy principals to discuss the broad socioeconomic lessons that can be drawn from the failures of a f***ing football team

The Nation's Dave Zirin bemoans the ways in which events like the World Cup promote jingoism and nationalism in the United States, but he's aiming at the wrong target.  Americans will celebrate the successes of team USA and within 24 hours forget the failures.  The ways in which the rest of the world inflate the importance of this event as some august commentary on their country's national standing are beyond silly.  Wars, assassinations, and stock market downturns have been (sort of) started because of this kind of silliness.   

I'll take American semi-engagement with soccer over French obsession any day of the week, thank you very much. 

Kevork Djansezian/Getty Images

 
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RBLAKEMESSER

2:31 PM ET

June 24, 2010

Like democracy in the Middle East

Just guessing, but I would think that due to inherent cultural differences, soccer here won't look anything like soccer in France.

 

JCARLOSLUNA

2:41 PM ET

June 24, 2010

do not let soccer become an American obsession

don't forget that even Congress investigated steroids in Baseball. Even Bush got in the middle of the scandal.
What about drugs and track and field?
No need for soccer to become popular, Sports is already a public interest affair.

 

DANIEL W. DREZNER

2:54 PM ET

June 24, 2010

There's a difference

True, sports can prompt political attention in the USA.  There are three big differences, however: 

 1)  The driver comes from health-related issues (drug use, concussions), which is a legitimate public policy issue. 

2)  This is all local -- you don't see the President convening a high-level task force because team USA underperformed at the Olympics or the World Baseball Classic

3)  Surprisingly, these political interventions have had somewhat salutary effects.  You can argue that Congressional hearings have prompted baseball to deal with steroid use, and football to address post-concussive syndromes. 

 

CEOUNICOM

6:01 PM ET

June 25, 2010

..."a legitimate public policy issue"

Thats a laugh.

Explain congresses recent interest in rejigging the BCS? e.g. the ""College Football Playoff Act of 2009" = ""(HR 390 IH), a bill designed “To prohibit, as an unfair and deceptive act or practice, the promotion, marketing, and advertising of any post-season NCAA Division I football game as a national championship game unless such game is the culmination of a fair and equitable playoff system.”""

The reason politicians go after sports is because sports are popular in America and politicians are not. They want a piece of the publicity.

The steroid trials were not on TV because of a profound public policy issue. They were on TV because congressmen wanted to play moral regulators and get more face time & headlines in front of voters. They also had no real legal basis for demanding players answer questions under oath, given that there was no actual law at the time that had any federal jurisdiction. There is no case for political intervention in sporting leagues, which are business with their own interests to manage. Yes, football players get concussions. So do construction workers and horse trainers and circus performers. The concept of a government of limited and enumerated powers fell by the board years ago, and the idea that we should expect politicians to prevent MLB sluggers from hitting *too many* dingers because they've been juicing is preposterous, and should not be countenanced as a "legitimate" role of government.

 

KLUIVERTUS

4:21 PM ET

June 24, 2010

People keep forgetting

That for all intents and purposes, Europe has one major sport. I think part of the reason there's almost no such thing as hooliganism in American sports is because our attentions are divided. People watch football, baseball, hockey, basketball, and the UnSport, NASCAR. PLUS soccer. So people are less die-hard about their teams, because there's always another one you can root for.
But in Europe, they have soccer, then to a much lesser extent basketball and rugby. So fans are much more into their one team, because there's little to nothing else to follow.
It's a psychological effect.

 

BOOKFISHER

6:45 PM ET

June 24, 2010

didnt Lakers fans trash there surrondings the other day

The thing about European holiganisme people tend to forget, is the political extremism. Certain political groups that in USA would play with guns in the forest and fear the black helicopters are in Europe organised in firms and unofficial fan clubs and just as is not really about the constitution for the yank idiots its not really about football for the eurotrash.

We do as whole in Europe have whole range of different sports that is followed closely, many classier or manlier versions of American sports though nothing as hardcore as cheerleading.

That said I do find it rich that Americans finds Europeans tense about football when American colleges spend four times as much on athletes than on regular stundents

 

DAN KERVICK

9:23 PM ET

June 24, 2010

I'm Going to Disagree

While it is no doubt true that some of the responses of French commentators are off the mark, the fact that they are having a national discussion of that kind is perfectly understandable.

The French didn't just lose. Their team's boorish antics and publicly enacted melodrama was a bona fide national disgrace, which culminated in their coach's unsportsmanlike behavior toward the coach of the South African team - the host country.

At an extremely high profile international event like the World Cup, actively viewed by billions of people around the world, a country's people do have a reasonable expectation that their players will conduct themselves with dignity, and as ambassadors of their nation. But these guys just helped reinforce every negative stereotype about the French: rude, temperamental, erratic, unreliable.

 

KWO

10:20 PM ET

June 24, 2010

Re: I'm Going to Disagree

Sarkozy can call as many cabinet meetings as he likes, he's not going to reverse the French stereotype, much less the underlying national character.

 

LGREENB

10:10 PM ET

June 24, 2010

Basketball

Do you mean the 2004 USA basketball team?

 

JKDUCK1

11:49 PM ET

June 24, 2010

That disgrace of a USA

That disgrace of a USA basketball team was at the 2004 Olympics in Athens, not 2000. That was the low point of the Bush presidency, in my view.

 

CUPPETTCJ

1:26 PM ET

June 25, 2010

Explain

Exactly how was it Bush's fault that the USA basketball team didn't win the gold medal?

 

OPEMILY

1:15 AM ET

June 25, 2010

Yes, the world loves to talk

Yes, the world loves to talk about soccer. We love to talk about celebrities and gadgets. The iPhone is front page news? Really? Tiger Woods sex life starts the news cycle?

We are also very interested in the personal lives of our politicians. Bill Clinton was impeached for oral sex, Al Gore's marriage failed, the South Carolina governor had an affair with a lady in Argentina and lied about where he was, John Edwards had a illegitimate baby while his wife had cancer! Not to mention all those Republicans who turned out to be closeted homosexuals!

We're not the only country obsessed with trashy stories (I think England's paparazzi culture is similar to ours), but they don't pay as much attention to their politicians personal lives as we do.

 

RANDINHO

1:49 AM ET

June 25, 2010

You're Overreacting

It's the race and immigration angle that's driving this in France, not the sport itself.

 

EVAN TURNER

2:41 AM ET

June 25, 2010

Soccer is a distant 4th sport at best in America

I don't think that Soccer will ever become an American obsession. The most athletic players in the world go after football, basketball, and baseball. From there you cut the deck. | Evan from athlean x

 

NICOLAS19

11:18 AM ET

June 25, 2010

Soccer mean more than a sport

American and European fans root for different reasons. American basketball teams represent themselves. But big European football teams always represent a whole community. Think about AS Roma (leftist, anti-Mussolini, anit-capitalist) and SS Lazio (far right, fascist) or Real Madrid (ruling elite, monarchy) and Atletico Madrid ("los colchoneros", working class from southern Madrid). They represent the pride and joy of a class and a community, that's why rooting is much-much more intense (and violent sometimes).Athletic Bilbao symbolizes the whole Basque independence movement, that's why there are no non-Basque players allowed there. Football has huge tradition, each team has its history, and gathers fans for much deeper reasons than just the color of their kits.

 

XEYNON

1:17 PM ET

June 25, 2010

I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you there...

I don't think this is entirely true. Certain American teams (New York Yankees, Los Angeles Lakers, Dallas Cowboys, etc.) certainly are perceived to represent certain segments of American society (in these cases NY fatcats, glitzy Hollywood big shots, and obnoxious Texas oilman types respectively). Others have much more working class fanbases and images (New York Jets, Chicago White Sox, etc.) In the case of hockey, the Montreal Canadiens are pretty strongly associated with Quebec's Francophone identity and have always had a disproportionate share of Quebecois players, while their big rivals, the Toronto Maple Leafs, Detroit Red Wings, and Boston Bruins, represent the English-speaking threat that surrounds them on three sides. This is the kind of thing you don't really notice unless you live in a place for awhile (certainly I wasn't aware of the deep connection between European football sides and their communities until I spent a bit of time there), but it's definitely untrue that American teams are just interchangeable corporate entities.

 

MY DINNNER WITH ANDRE THE GIANT

10:21 PM ET

June 26, 2010

Outside perceptions

Are not quite the same as reality. I mean, Lazio's reputation as a right-wing stronghold has a lot to do with the fact that it is a right wing stronghold. No matter how much the rest of the country sees the Lakers' fan base as being a lot of fake Hollywood types, that has little to do with the reality that the team is hugely popular among ghetto trash that burns taxicabs in celebration, working class people of all races, suburban Republican accountants, and, yes, fake Hollywood types. Being a Laker fan just means that you're from Los Angeles. Nothing more. Similarly, while people in Montreal might have seen their rivals as representing some Anglophone threat, I don't think many Bruin or Red Wing fans had a whole lot of interest in that debate.

To be fair, I do admit that there is something of a class divide in Chicago baseball, and New Yorkers seem to pick their teams somewhat consistently (either Nets/Jets/Mets/Devils or Knicks/Giants/Yankees/Rangers). But for the most part, fandom is strictly geographical and the only people that violate that are band-wagoneers who just decide to like whoever's good.

 

PABLOC

12:57 PM ET

June 29, 2010

On the other hand...

...you have teams relocating and changing names (Minneapolis/Los Angeles Lakers; Seattle Supersonics/Oklahoma City Thunder; Oakland/Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders; Dallas Chaparrals/San Antonio Spurs; Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves ) purely based on corporate reasons. For Europe/LatAm soccer fans that’s just simply inconceivable.

American sports don't even have "clubs" (in the sense of "association of two or more people united by a common interest or goal"), but "franchises". I don't understand how can anyone be a fan of a "franchise" that can move to the next city or state if you don't agree to build a new stadium with taxpayers’ money.

 

XEYNON

1:03 PM ET

June 25, 2010

Come now...

It's true that Americans aren't that nationalistic about sports (despite our reputation as blind patriots I don't know too many people who particularly care if we lose a baseball tournament to Japan or a basketball game to Argentina, whereas I know plenty of Canadians are devastated when their national team loses a hockey game, Englishmen who feel crushed when they go out of the World Cup, etc.). Certainly we're not obsessive enough about it (or perhaps we're too inclined toward limited government) to have something so silly as a Ministry of Sport. But I really don't think our reaction to particularly embarrassing performances by our athletes/national teams is all that different - when they're bad, we criticize them, and to the extent that sports reflect racial or ethnic tensions in our society, yes, a certain amount of the criticism takes on those overtones - witness the reaction to the all-black 2004 Olympic Basketball team, who were often described in the press in language that some would interpret as racially charged ("thuggish", "surly", etc.). This is contra the cases of, say, Bode Miller, or the all-white 1998 hockey team, who, despite similarly poor performances in the arena, and similarly boorish behavior away from it, were criticized but not quite labeled disgraces to the American uniform. Conversely, an American team (and particularly a multi-ethnic outfit like the current soccer team) that plays well and demonstrates sportsmanship and team spirit makes us feel good about ourselves - like we really do live up to the ideals we hold dear as Americans sometimes.

I think it's similar with the French and their soccer team. When Les Bleus are playing well, e.g. when they won the World Cup in '98, these very same philosophers and politicians trumpet their success as a shining symbol of the ideals of tolerance, brotherhood, and cultural integration in France, spilling much ink about how a team of blacks, Arabs, and white Frenchmen had demonstrated the transcendent human bonds that all French people share. Or some such overblown pap. This is just the flipside - when the team flops, the French, like all sports fans, b*tch and moan and look for someone to jeer. To the extent that racial tensions remain in French society, they will tend to surface at these times, but I hardly think it represents a real soccer-induced breakdown of the French national identity. And given that sports is perhaps the one arena in life in which success truly is indisputably colorblind and meritocratic, and one arena in which racial prejudice is a huge impediment to success (France would have been a much weaker team over the past 10 years without French-Algerians like Zinedine Zidane and French-Africans like Thierry Henry), I think that caring about and participating in them are net positives toward a fairer and more integrated society.

 

MY DINNNER WITH ANDRE THE GIANT

10:03 PM ET

June 26, 2010

Not a fair comparison

For one thing, I read an awful lot of high minded articles criticizing Bode Miller and that hockey team. But more importantly, our failures in those events were less important to the US. We manage to give a damn (barely) at the Olympics if we have a skier who happens to be decent, but they spend the next four years in total obscurity. Hockey is quite a bit more important, but while our success is really fun it's also unexpected. If we crash out of a major tournament...well, it's just business and usual. But basketball? If there's any game that we think of as "ours", it's basketball. In a mere 20 years we went from a place where we could roll out an ad-hoc team of college seniors and treat Olympic gold as a foregone conclusion to a place where a team of top NBA players lost to Puerto Rico, Lithuania, and Argentina on their way to a bronze medal. When something like that happens, it is entirely reasonable that the players should be subjected to a lot more criticism than some skier or a hockey team.

 

WALKTHEWALK

1:43 PM ET

June 25, 2010

Better that than national obsessions about idol, TV "reality"

Better that we care about something that the rest of the world gives a darn about than who is on or off the "reality(sicO" show du jour, American Idol and the like. That has a far more pernicious attitude. We've infected British TV with it, and soon others will follow.

Actually, let's take a step back--how likely is it that American's will have a philospher of note and if they do that that individual will comment on soccer?
Bad enough we have the endless drivel trying to equate baseball with athleticism. Skill yes, athleticism no.

Mr Drezner--please act like journalist, not some whiner that just can't understand why people like soccer--as opposed to baseball, an alleged sport that is as exciting as watching paint dry.

In the best American tradition, now that the US team has persevered and won, even Mr. Drezner alludes to the possibility that the game might be interesting.

You want boring? How about that NASCAR. A large proportion of the public seem to love boring sports, especially in the summer. So it's unlikely we will become feverish about soccer. But if so, I don't think that we will follow the French who, after all, we would almost expect to have a philosopher on call in case the team totally implodes.
Racism in sport? Don't we hear tinges of that here when an African American Quarterback doesn't do well? And how many hispanics are playing many of our sports other than baseball? Not anythihng like the 30% of the population they represent. And even in baseball are they in management?

No, we'll continute to be rabid about sports played by alleged students at institutions of higher education (and TV residuals). Let's face it, many fine universities (Notre Dame, Georgetown, Stanford) give no academic merit scholarships but do give athletic scholarships. Compare the nujmber of non-need based merit scholarships at Michigan with the number of athletic scholarships. Not even close. Would we want any country to emulate that?

Lots to diss the French about, as always, They are their own best charicature--as we are. Waht's worse--having a team of idiots or having a president who gets reelected who's an idiot, following not too long aftger one who was having Alzheimers--and most of us didn't even notice?

 

MY DINNNER WITH ANDRE THE GIANT

9:53 PM ET

June 26, 2010

Number of scholarships

How many non-need based merit scholarships are given each year at Michigan? How many athletic scholarships?

 

MUSTNOTSLEEP14

4:31 PM ET

June 25, 2010

Its actually pretty awesome

Its actually pretty awesome to see how seriously the Euros take it and still to beat them at their own game when Soccer barely registers as a real sport in this country. Once we start winning every World Cup (as we do with the Olympics and every other sporting competition), then we need to force the world to start calling it Soccer. That would put a smile on any American's face.

 

ABELIAN

5:18 PM ET

June 25, 2010

Cherry picking on facts

I am always enraged by such selective use of facts and quotations.... the writer of this article conviniently forgets to add that the multicultural French team that won the world cup in 1998 brought the country together under one flag than never before.

Secondly, Americans suffer from an insular view of the world that is almost painful to watch or listen. The world does not care if the US likes football or not

 

DHPELEGRO

7:33 PM ET

June 25, 2010

Enjoy it Drezner

This is a strange angle to some at this from. It's all very well to revel in the fact that the US focuses on sports that almost nobody else plays except in selective enclaves, but why not enjoy the friendly competition between nations that the World Cup brings? In what other arena could Slovenia and Algeria compete with the US and England and have anyone care? As posted above the acrimony in France is because of the French team became an utter shambles and a national embarassment on a prominent international stage - in distinct contrast I might add to the US football team. The whole (utterly ridiculous) race thing says more about divisions in France than it does about football as an international sport.

I would encourage Americans - that means you Drezner! - to revel in the chance to cheer on your team in the World's biggest sporting competition (yes it is more important to at least 75% of the world population than the Olympics). The fact that people care about it is good, that fact that the French team seemingly didn't is what made MOST Frenchmen angry.

 

XEYNON

2:55 AM ET

June 26, 2010

The Italians...

...after a similarly dismal performance by their team, which does not include any ethnically non-Italian players, are also blaming immigrants:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/801913/ce/uk/?cc=4716&ver=global

The logic in this case being that allowing immigrants to play in Italy's youth leagues limits the supply of young Italian talent that's developed.

So in short, the logic is, if the team is multi-ethnic and plays like crap, its' the immigrants' fault. And if the team is all natives and plays like crap, it's also the immigrants' fault.

Amusing.

 

WALKTHEWALK

3:31 AM ET

June 26, 2010

It really doesn't matter--not enough fans+continued no coverage

Let's face it, there aren't enough fans to warrant having the games rebroadcast after work hours, as some Olympic and other events are. So realistically, we are a long way from nationally going wild for soccer as a spectator sport. As a participant sport it's way ahead of baseball, and probably football.

So all the worry about "will this be a soccer nation" actually says more about those who are worried about nothing--as in "oh my Gosh, kids won't have the joy of Little League any more"--that's right, the joy of seeing adolescent Asians with odd birth certificates beat kids from the US at our own game.

Even if our team makes the semis, you'll still hear the sneers, and after some excitement and interest by the less defensive, disinterest will return.

So don't worry lovers of baseball and NASCAR, your incredibly boring sports (sic) are quite safe.

 

NOVAMARK

2:29 PM ET

June 26, 2010

Just say no to soccer..

Thanks for the astute comments, Daniel, although we could have lived without reference to Adolph Sarkozy.
Sports observers have claimed since the '60's that soccer would be the wave of the future(so long ago, I was a child!). Thankfully, that has never happened and never will. Soccer is a look-ma, no hands act- a sport where the most dexterous part of the human body, the hands, are only used by the goalie. It is understandable why soccer is popular in so many parts of the Third World- all you need is a ball(or any round object) and some markers for the goal mouth. Not the case here. Forget soccer moms and kiddie leagues, they'll forget that crap when they get to high school. NASCAR and baseball are boring??? Soccer is the only sport where 0-0 ties happen. That's exciting? Not to me.
By the way, if you think that the performance of the 2004 Men's Olympic basketball team was "the low point of the Bush administration", you need to go back and read some newspapers from 2001-2009. Wake up from your stupor and smell the coffee..
Why do they call it football, anyway? You can strike the ball with your head and the goalie throws it inbounds..what foreign genius coined the term "football"?
Geez..

 

MY DINNNER WITH ANDRE THE GIANT

9:50 PM ET

June 26, 2010

"Football"

That term predates the creation of soccer by centuries and was originally used to describe any number of games, mostly unique to certain towns or regions with lots of local variation. Some of these games, in fact, prohibited the use of the foot to propel the ball forward, which is why it may be that the term was originally used to describe games played ON foot (as opposed to horseback).

For a good example of an ancient code of football that still exists, google the Kirkwall Ba'.

 

GREGDOHE

3:09 PM ET

June 30, 2010

Its a worldwide obsession

Even if soccer does not become an American obsesssion as you want it, this sport does dwarf many other sports like American football which clearly is just an American obsession. Soccer is a worldwide obsession watched by many more than the NFL. Unfortunately, like every other sports, it is also marred by disgraceful behavior - recall the head butting by Zidane and drug scandal of Maradona? As such, controversy is going to involve politics, patriotism, racism and all other issues brought into it. but havent we seen the same with American footbal too? - Talus

 

Daniel W. Drezner is professor of international politics at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University.

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