These stories are as credible as Kim Jun Il's democracy.

which apparently you haven't.

as in alliances like with great britain, france, canada, spain, germany, etc..etc...

and yes, america owes israel its support after 60 yrs of israel fighting on the front lines against extremism...

anyone remember palestians in the West Bank and Gaza CHEERING immediately after the planes hit the world trade centers? yes, they were cheering...handing out celebration candies to little kids...

amazing how quickly americans forget...

US owes isreal nothing. Isreal wasnt fighting extremism, it was fighting the people it stole land from. There were no dancing arabs after 9/11. How easy is it to find a video of people dancing and cheering and throw it in a news reel to pass off as a current video to a current event?

US owes isreal nothing. NONE of our interests even align, the US is obviously headed toward a containment policy with a nuclear iran but isreal is trying to force us to go to war with iran for them. Vetoing condemnation of settlements is a HUGE embarassment to the US. Isreal is an ungrateful ally that contributes nothing, as Sec of Defense Robert Gates stated. They take and give nothing. A parasite so to speak

Jonathan Pollard
USS Liberty
Israeli arms sales to China http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4101961.stm

Some ally.

Yes, there was rejoicing in Palestine. But folks like you never speak of the other side, because it is inconvenient to your narrative.

See: http://cellar.org/showthread.php?threadid=490

Do you see "Palestinian women mourn during a vigil outside the U.S. consulate". Do you see the reaction in Bangladesh, a muslim country? I don't believe you did. You neocons are so blinded by your hatred and your uniform story line that you will not believe anything that strays from that thinking.

on the one hand they allow an article asking why american media are so obsessed with israel and yet on the other hand as everyone can see, FP itself has about 3 articles a day on the very subject....lol....

its no secret FP is a left leaning site using its platform to support partisan politics. Its a far cry from genuine foreign policy discourse.

have you ever looked into rothkopf's backround? its obvious what he is using this site to try to effect. Its just another group dedicated to trying to persuade people how to think, how to live, how to vote...etc..etc...this aint no news group, its left wing indoctrination under the guise of intellectualism...in fact, its quite base and disingenuous.

it's like seeing a bunch of cowering children moaning about the boogeyman. Though, in this case the children are mediocre academics and the boogeyman is the dreaded AIPAC.

Sure, let's all pretend that Israel *doesn't* have a disproportionate influence on American domestic politics.

Sure, let's all pretend that.

Meanwhile, the No. 2 Republican in the House can say things like this:
"we need to make sure that this president is also going to stand by Israel and not allow his administration to somehow speak contrary to what our ally thinks is in its best interest"

Apparently we are meant to ignore this explicit declaration by an important Congressman that the role of the Presidency is to act as a spruiker and/or a shill for Israel's Singular Self-interest.

Apparently we are meant to ignore the impications of such a doctrine because, well, because Scott here finds it all too boring for words.....

you have something intelligent to say. Let's also pretend you are not a bigot and antisemite. Let's also pretend you do something with your life other than bash Israel and support Iran. Let's also pretend you don't live at home and have no employment skills. Imagining is fun, isn't it?

Why don’t you admit that you are pretending to be Mohamed ABED, but in fact, you are on the payroll of the Israeli Mossad.

It is also conceivable that you’re a land thieve writing from one of the illegal Jewish settlement, stolen from an indigenous Palestinian family on the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

It is also possible that you are a cheap Zionist, who loves to lie openly for Israel and you are pretending to be Mohamed ABED.

Congratulations, you worked it out: I Don't Like Israel.

Your reasons WHY I don't like Israel are, however, totally and completely F**ked Up.

DLT - complaining about "land thieves" --- this is kind of funny coming from someone on native american and mexican land. Please do tell me how the Sioux indians just handed you your land with a smile on their face and gladly walked a few hundred miles with all their posessions onto a reservation. And wait, how did you get the whole South West? Oh, the Mexicans just smiled and shook your hand and gave it to you! Right?.....

The Palestinians are Arabs....from Arabia. They are more indigenous than any other group of people in the Middle East. Just ask the Copts, Kurds, Berbers, and Assyrians. They will tell you know the Arabs came from Arabia and took over the land.

"Why don’t you admit that you are pretending to be Mohamed ABED, but in fact, you are on the payroll of the Israeli Mossad."

----I have to say, I am flattered you think I am a Mossad agent. I wish I got paid for this or did work for the Mossad. What a fun job that would be. However, much to your surprise, people actually post supporting Israel, without being paid. I know, it must be surprising to you that people can disagree with your opinions and not be hired by anyone to do so. It is called living in a free society that allows free thought and expression. This must be a shock to you

As to Johnboy - yes we know the reasons why you dislike Israel....you are misinformed, bigoted, can't speak Arabic or Hebrew, and know very little about actual life there. Mostly, you are just bigoted.

Not to mention you make assertions you can't back up...such as claiming that "debkafile" is an army of the IDF.

Just as israelis are Jews.... from Jewland.

Err, no, that's not right.

What makes a Jew a Jew has nothing to do with where they "came from", so why do you insist that what makes an Arab an Arab is where they "came from"?

Oh, gosh!, an Arab is an Arab because his principle language is Arabic, and his culture is shared with all the other people who speak Arabic, and not because he is "from Arabia".

Got that, dimwit?

assertion you make. Such as claiming that Debkafile is a wing of the IDF. Again, please prove it. Arabs are people from Arabia. Arabic is not just a language. Got that dimwit. The "Arabs" are not indigenous people. They came and pushed / conquored / assimilated the other peoples in the region such as Jews, Kurds, Berbers, Copts etc.

I shall use Netanyahu-logic(tm) to prove it:
"If it looks like a duck, if it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, then what is it? That's right. It's a duck. But this duck is an IDF duck!"

If you want to argue with *that* logic then I have the transcript of a certain Very Recent Speech that I'd like to show you......

"Arabs are people from Arabia."

Simply untrue.

"Arabic is not just a language."

Nor did I say that it was.

I said this: "an Arab is an Arab because his principle language is Arabic, and his culture is shared with all the other people who speak Arabic"

That definition of an Arab is much, much more accurate than this dimwitted definition: "Arabs are people from Arabia".

Demonstrably so, because I can list a number of Arab countries that stretch across the entire northern part of the African continent, starting with Mauritania on the west alllllllll the way over to Somalia on the east.

None of which (and I do I need to point this out?) Is In Arabia.

Hey, at least they are using their own money.

Unlike some countries I could name.......

An argument can be made that Saudi Arabia has a very special relationship with the US too. However, this is a two-way relationship that the US benefits from greatly. On the other hand what would the US lose if it severed ties with Israel and decided to let them go it alone? Nothing much, other than being able to keep countries like Iran honest.

He must be confounding you to the extent that you think he is a professional.

As for yourself, where are your substantive comments?

and it won't be admitted into NATO, even though Israel has stated a desire. So, it's not for Israel's lack of asking. Israel did deliver soviet tanks, radar, missiles, etc. to the US during the cold war - something no other US ally ever did. Israel also saved Jordan from Syrian invasion based on US request. Etc.

Curious, what did NATO member Greece do?

So sorry, but Israel has resisted any suggestion that it sign a formal treaty with anyone.

The reason why is obvious: treaties create mutual obligations, whereas Israel always wants everything to be a one-way street.

this idiot lives in a fantasy land. Israel won't sign treaties? Except for those minor things, like peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan.....And of course there is the free trade agreement with the US, the free trade agreement with MERCOSUR, the Israel-EU association agreement. Israel also tried to join NATO all the way back in 1954.

So once again, Johnboy speaks out of his bulbous ass. Please, stop being such a misinformed bigoted idiot.

a Fair Trade Agreement does not a mutual defense pact make. Regardless, the point being made and the one the Israel defenders are missing is that no standing member of Congress or any other branch of our government should be suggesting that the President of the United States and his administration base our foreign policy on making sure it isn't contrary to what Israel (or fill in any other country here) feels is in their best interest.

America does what is in it's best interest. One would hope that as we do we are constantly looking to make our foreign policy decisions so that they are win/win for all parties involved but at the end of the day the final decision has to be what is best for this nation.

correct. However, America has always done what is in its best interest regardless of Israel. The US invaded Iraq in 1991, with the SCUDS flying into Israel, and forced Israel to sit on its hands. The US also forced Israel from totally starving out Egypt's 6th Army in 1973. And on the threat of withholding aid and other monetary incentives, the US forced Israel to sit down with the PLO at the Madrid Conference. So the idea that the tail wagging the dog is quite ludicrous.

However, Israel has asked for mutual defense agreements and closer security arrangements, contrary to what others have suggested. The most recent was asking for an office at NATO, which the Turks were vetoing.

It has rebuffed any suggestion by the Americans that such a treaty be negotiated between the USA and Israel.

Israel. Does. Not. Want. One.

Treaties have terms.
Treaties spell out mutual obligations.

The very notion is anathema to the Israelis, who want a free hand to go BANG! on anyone they want, when they want, where they want, and for whatever reason suits their purpose.

Israel did ask to join NATO as early as 1954, when Abba Eban was Israel's foreign minister. It is not very hard to figure out. Israel also asked as recently as 2011 to set up an office with NATO, which was rebuffed by the Turks.

It's amazing what you can learn by just reading a bit. If only you could try it Johnboy. Also johboy, I'm still waiting for your hard evidence that Debkafile is a wing of the IDF.

No, I believe you will find that it was the USSR who asked to join NATO in 1954.

Strange, but true...... unlike your nonsense.

doesn't mean you have to a brain spasm. We all know you are an Israel-hater, bigot, and probable Jew-hater. you voice it in nearly every single post that mentions Israel.

Slow People: "We all know you are an Israel-hater, bigot, and probable Jew-hater."

I am, indeed, an "Israel-hater", precisely because I think that the ruling regime is exceptionally "hateable".

As to *why* I think that Israel is so easy to hate is, indeed, where you and I part company.

like the above statement that israel never tried to sign any treaties. Even though back in 1954, Israel tried to join NATO, under Abba Ebban's lead and has requested ever since. Even back in 2011, Israel requested to open an office as part of NATO’s Mediterranean Dialogue initiative, which Turkey claims it "thwarted." And, Israel was made a Major Non-NATO ally of the US, along with Australia, Egypt, Japan, Jordan, New Zealand, and South Korea.

Johnboy you are an idiot and full of moronic rage.

Utter Nonsense.

Take one look at the membership of NATO in 1954, and you tell me if it made the slightest bit of sense for Israel to "try to join" an organization that at that point didn't even include West Germany.

The claim that Israel tried to join NATO in 1954 is hasbarah bullshit: Israel made no such formal application, precisely because in 1954 the proposition that Europe could be better defended by bringing a Leventine country into the alliance was (and still is, when it comes to it) utterly preposterous.

What Abba Eban really wanted in 1954 - and pushed hard for - was a "security guarantee" from the USA i.e. a pledge by the Americans that they would come to Israel's aid, without any concommittent obligation by Israel to come to the USA's aid.

All the self-interested benefits of a treaty... without the mutual obligations of a treaty.

That's got "Israel" written all over it, doesn't it?

"And, Israel was made a Major Non-NATO ally of the US, along with Australia, Egypt, Japan, Jordan, New Zealand, and South Korea."

Australia: ANZUS treaty
Japan: Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan
New Zealand: ANZUS treaty
South Korea: ROK-US Mutual Defense Treaty

Get my drift?

Everywhere OTHER THAN the middle east you see that the USA has "allies" because it signs a formal treaty of alliance with those countries.

Not so in the middle east: the USA may call them "allies", but the arrangement is simply an informal one i.e. the USA has no more formal obligation to the defence of Israel than it does to the defence of either Egypt or Jordan.

Q: So why doesn't the USA have formal defence pacts with those middle east "allies"?
A: Israel, who keeps that Big Dawg a' waggin'

to the proof that Israel did try to join NATO in 1954. And in terms of security treaties between the US and Israel you have:

Agreement relating to mutual defense assistance, Agreement creating the Joint Political Military Group and Joint Security Assistance Program, Mutual logistic support agreement, Memorandum of Agreement regarding joint political, security and economic cooperation

Johnboy, your jew-hatred seems to blind you and keep you from doing basic fact checking! Please go exercise, as this hatred might cause your fat body to have a heart attack!

johnboy's "proof" that Abba Ebban did not try to get Israel into NATO in 1954 is his opinion. Very convincing indeed. LOL!

You have made an assertion.
You have not provided any proof for that assertion.

"Agreement relating to mutual defense assistance, Agreement creating the Joint Political Military Group and Joint Security Assistance Program, Mutual logistic support agreement, Memorandum of Agreement regarding joint political, security and economic cooperation "

Not a one of which is a treaty of alliance, none provide any mutual obligation to defend the other.

Each and every one relates to the economic assistance provided by the USA to the state of Israel via freebie military equipment.

"johnboy's "proof" that Abba Ebban did not try to get Israel into NATO in 1954 is his opinion"

You appear to be insisting that *I* have to prove a negative.

Let's now put that alongside your insistence that *I* am obligated to prove that debkafiles is an IDF front organization, while you don't have to do anything to "prove" that it isn't.

Well, I guess that's hasbarah for you i.e. "consistency" is an optional-extra.

Dude, you are the person who insists that in 1954 Abba Eban submitted a membership application for Israel to join NATO.

The onus is therefore on you to show me that application form, it ain't on me to "prove" that this never happened.

but sin nombre is too stupid to understand that. By the way Sin...you post on numerous blogs nearly ever day. Do you even have a job? Or do you just live at home in your basement? Making uneducated and snarky remarks is not a career....it's just pathetic.